Greek Life: Come for the bonding, stay for the branding
Comments
by Joey Chenoweth on February 4, 2010 at 12:01 am under Opinion
Over the winter break, The Greatest Story You Never Heard About took place. ABC News reported the case of a student from Texas Christian University (TCU) and an unfortunate road trip involving fire in inappropriate areas. This young man was a new member of a fraternity and made the mistake of agreeing to let the fraternity take him far away from safety.
Long story short, some sins occurred, some alcohol was consumed, yada yada. Next thing the student knew, he had himself a brand of the fraternity’s initials on his buttocks.
Editorial cartoon by David Stoll
Now, this story is fascinating in many ways, partly because it produced one of the greatest quotes I’ve ever read: “My whole other butt cheek was destroyed.” Stephen Glass couldn’t even make up something that great. Also, the student happened to be the great-grandson of one of TCU’s greatest donors. Whoops.
But the glory of this story had to be ruined — like so many other treasures — by the involvement of Greek Life.
A good portion of Greek Life is made up of people who actually enjoyed all the stupidity of high school to the point where they just had to continue it in college. All the social requirements. All the backstabbing. All the immaturity. They’re all still alive in fraternities and sororities.
Fraternities will have you believe they do what they do for the purpose of bonding and male camaraderie. Then they’ll put pillowcases over pledges’ heads and release them in the middle of the woods. Sororities will say they’re providing a female support system. Then they’ll punish their pledges when they can’t make Rush Event No. 5,274.
Am I stereotyping? Sure. But as the scholar Eric “Otter” Stratton said in Animal House, if you were to pick out the wrongdoings of just a few, “shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system?” Yes, Otter! There is obviously something about the Greek Life system that promotes wrongful behavior; otherwise, there wouldn’t be an alarmingly high volume of abuse.
According to a study by Dr. Susan Lipkins, a psychologist and expert on hazing (she’s met Oprah!), 39 percent of respondents feel humiliation is a “significant element” in Greek Life initiation. Twenty-nine percent of the respondents feel excessive alcohol consumption and physical pain are key ingredients in introducing new members to these clubs. And we won’t even talk about the 25 percent who feel paddles have a place in initiations.
These stats don’t include the way fraternities and sororities turn their members into indentured servants in order to be accepted into their little club. They sign their pledges up for countless activities, make them put friendships on hold with gimmicks like “No Booze No Boys” and constrain socially acceptable behavior in such a way that it’s like high school spirit week all over again.
Are there some fraternities and sororities that don’t do that? Sure. But that’s irrelevant. Whenever there are recurring scandals taking place within an industry, that industry gets reformed to prevent those types of behaviors from happening. It doesn’t matter what percentage are guilty.
Think about baseball with steroids. Businesses with discriminatory hiring. The government with the influence of lobbyists (oh, wait). None of these actions are worse than the abuse from Greek Life organizations. So why should Greek Life be immune to reforming the very core of its functions? Shouldn’t we stop laughing off the injustices of initiation rituals?
Or should the TCU student simply turn the other cheek?
To see the response from Greek Life, follow the link.
143 Comments
Darn right, Joey, you are darn right. Any organization that is okay with hazing people is serving only to lower the bar for our society. But it is the people who are willing to haze and be hazed who allow it to be lowered. Members of fraternities and sororities need to either accept responsibility for their actions — and the actions of their affiliates — or they need to not accept those persons who engage in the offending behaviors into their organizations.
The Lumberjack trying to rebuild relationships with the greek community? Doesnt look like they are trying to do that anymore.
“”Libel” involves the publishing of a falsehood that harms someone. Slander is the same doctrine applied to the spoken word. Collectively, they are referred to as “defamation”. Both are a matter of state laws, which usually (not always) require that the falsehood be intentional.
In New York Times v. Sullivan, the Supreme Court held that the First Amendment requires that, before a public official can recover damages for a defamatory statement, he must prove it was made with “actual malice”, even if state laws otherwise allow recovery for negligent defamation. The Court has since expanded this to cover not only public officials but “public figures”, including individuals who involve themselves in controversies.”
This article is atrocious in so many ways. Fraternities and sororities are not something that can be judged from on the basis of random acts, especially if you have no idea what they are about (which is the most obvious and truthful thing that could be said about this article). I agree that what the one chapter of one fraternity on one campus did to this particular pledge is outrageous and I am not trying to defend it.
It is impossible to understand the dynamics of fraternities and sororities, as they are secret organizations, and cannot be judged by an outsider with any sort of truthful merit. There is nothing inherent in the Greek system that promotes such behavior, and it is extremely rare to see such behavior. Just because there are rules that one must follow does not mean that you are not free to do what you want or need to do. They are simply rules like any other organization has rules.
And as far as the social aspects of them that you clearly deem unacceptable by some moral code that is apparently better than Greek lifes, when there is a concentration of new freshmen and young people, there is obviously going to be some aspects of immaturity and stupidity. Have you somehow found that all 18 and 19 year olds outside of Greek Life are instantly mature once they get to college? People are still immature and do stupid things in the course of student life that has nothing to do with Greek organizations, there is just no association to tie them to so others simply dismiss those acts.
To address your citation of an “expert” on hazing (which is makes little sense and is entirely subjective in every possible way), no points or percentages mean anything whatsoever. To start, who gives a damn if she met Oprah? What does that have to do with the topic at hand and how does that make her more credible? Also, the respondents that gave those percentages in response to those questions are most likely (since you have not indicated otherwise) people that have nothing to do with Greek Life and the only things they know about it are from what they have seen in Hollywood movies (because obviously those always tell the truth) and the very rare news reports of extreme outrageous behavior. And those respondents simply think that is what goes on, those people have most likely never witnessed anything that Greek life has done, so why do their opinions mean anything?
How is it irrelevant that the vast, vast majority of fraternities and sororities have nothing to do with this type of behavior? There are obviously going to be a couple people and chapters here and there that do not want to follow the rules, but that has nothing to do with the rest of Greek system. Hazing is nowhere near the “very core of (Greek lifes) functions” so that point is completely inane. And I can guarantee you that these random acts of heinousness have nothing to do with any Greek organizations ritual, that is sacred and not taken lightly.
Overall, it is clear that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, yet you talk as if you have some sort of authority over the subject. I welcome your response if you so choose.
this article is absolutely WRONG. whoever wrote it has an opinion of a 6th grader.
and by the way, we are NAU not TCU.
Talk to any of the members of the Greek community at NAU and they will tell you there is zero tolerance for hazing. Hate to bring it up but remember Pi Kappa Alpha? They got kicked off campus simply because they were hazing. NAUs Greek life is completely different than other campuses and so much less stereotypical. No Booze No Boys is to ELIMINATE bias during Rush, rather than to encourage joining a specific sorority simply beacuse they party with the best boys on campus (whoever those may be). There are plenty of those within Greek life who do not drink and if new members OR ACTIVES do not feel comfortable participating in an activity, it NEVER means that they will not get initiated. This is extremely stereotypical and you should be looking at Northern Arizonas Greek life, not a huge SOUTHERN school such as TCU. Greek life in the South or in the East may be like that but I have heard from MANY people within Greek communities across the country that NAUs is what Greek life SHOULD be, and is the exception, not the rule.
Article is so wrong/biased.. There is a reason why i dont read the lumberjack
whoever the writer is YOU DISGUST ME.
YOURE A DISGRACE
greek life isnt anything close to this. its simply a way of bonding with your sisters or brothers for a better way of being yourself around them. greek life isnt just about drinking or partying. im in a sorority here at NAU and i for one do not drink all the time. most people can say no to it but if not, then its your own problem. take PKE for example, they got kicked off campus for violating the rules. we can get rid of the frats or sororities who do not follow the rules. being greek is a fun thing to do involving philanthropies, community service, and socials with others to get to know one another. NAUs greek life is a great program.
joey just cuz u cant get in a frat and u have no knowledge of frat life doesnt give u the right to make shit up
This article is probably the most poorly written and researched piece I think I have ever read in my life. Greek Life is more than letters on a sweatshirt and partying. We do countless things for the community, not only donating money to many charitable organizations, but also participating in each others’ philanthropies. We are active students and citizens in the community, with one common goal: making a difference. This article is nothing but a damper on the great things that we do, and enjoy doing for others. So the next time you try to critique the greek community and attemp to exhibit us like we are animals, please reconsider and look at both sides.
“From the outside looking in, you can’t understand it. From the inside looking out, you can’t explain it.”
I suggest you look at your research before you claim yourself an expert on an institution like Greek Life. It’s one thing to address problems like hazing and pinpoint them at their source. It’s completely another to generalize and blame hundreds of people for a crime they’ve never committed or tolerated. Also, your argument fails to mention the good that Greek Life does for their community and this school. They are the most active group on campus in terms of philanthropy and community service. But I’m sure that didn’t appear in your ‘expert research.’ Now there are problems with all Greek communities, and maybe if you had touched on those problems people would actually take your argument seriously. But as far as I can tell, you’re just an angry clown with a pen who abuses his access to a media outlet.
Oh, and I’m not part of Greek Life and have no loyalty to them. Cheers.
Are you kidding me? Dude get a life, im with “bob smith” and Brandon on this. This is 100% biases. Yes stuff happens that we can lump groups into. This is unfortunate that this happened to the kid, but that is one group of people. This dose not mean that the whole of Greek life participates in these activity’s. We call you a horrible writer and someone who should be taken off staff at the Lumberjack, but that dose not mean that the whole of the Lumberjack is horrible. You should really step back and see how much of the student life and groups we have are supported by Greek Life. Along those lines, how many students from Greek Life are on an executive board for a club. I could keep going on but last thought, you should really write a apologize to Greek Life as a whole and make sure you take what your journalism profs have taught you and USE IT!!!
Its funny that you have nothing better to do than make things up in your head about what we do. First off, you have no idea what a ritual initiation is, therefore how do you have any business talking about it or saying what you might think? Greek life is so much more then you have in your tiny little head, but since you are a closed minded individual who was obviously a loser in high school and continued that role in college you wouldn’t know what Greek life does. We are not biased towards you nor do we feel that we are superior, but you are a low individual to write such hatred in an article. Not to mention, do you even know how many of our countries leaders have been Greek? Maybe you should do your research and become a better writer because this might cut it for the Lumberjack, but in all reality you are going no where with this in your life. Also, you wrote in your article that it is irrelevant that some sororities and fraternities don’t do things like this, why is it irrelevant that people out there in Greek life are trying to make a difference and a change. Do presidents of the united states want to make a change? I think so. 63 percent of the U.S. President’s Cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek. Do senators and congressmen want to make a difference? I believe that’s true as well, 76 percent of U.S. Congressmen and Senators are Greek. Chose your words wisely and maybe look into things before you go bashing people. Greek life is an amazing thing and unappreciated considering the money and time we donate to make a difference.
Joey Chenoweth,
I have just one question for you:
How did you ever earn any qualifications for writing an article such as this?
You obviously have no validity behind your so called argument and the journalism with which you constructed your issue around is simply pathetic. Next time you are giving an idea to write about, make sure you do some actual investigating before you send it to print. Otherwise you’ll run the risk of coming off as a complete idiot; much as you did with this article.
Brilliant article!
I can testify that hazing does occur on NAU’s campus from my own experience bob smith. After a short time as a pledge I realized that I am not going to let those assholes take my dignity for 8 weeks nor was I going to do the same to future pledges. I never understood the concept of hazing someone then calling them your brother the next moment. Yea there are good ones out there and plenty of good people but this is a major, re-occuring theme in Greek life. I just hope more pledges will come out and end this so called “tradition.”
Joey, you knew you were going to stir the shit when you wrote this. So looking past all the angry comment (nice job), this really is a poor written article. Its over generalized and extremely vindictive. You know you are a better writer than this. Also, when using the tone you did, you portray yourself as no better than them (petty). Transcend good, sir. Use your eloquence to bash them appropriately, not throw yourself in the mix with them. Oh, yeah, tell Gean we cannot use apostrophes online.
i think what you are all forgetting is that .. this is an opinion piece, so yes, in fact it is bias.. and I am just pleased that our college campus knows the difference between opinion and fact.
A journalist takes on an incredible responsibility. When presenting a report on any event, a journalist should be very careful and aware of his responsibilities in disseminating it towards his audience. He must deliver his perspective as it serves a common purpose and fulfills major people’s interests as well. Any presentation or writing of a journalist should never inflict or hit any part or group of our society regarding its belief, ideals, and rituals anyway. The writing of a journalist should be inspiring not only in keeping social harmony, but also in achieving social development at the same time.
Bottom line, writing an article in an opinion column and then proceeding to present that misguided opinion matter-of-factly as if it were a news story is wrong.
If this is what NAU’s Journalism community has to offer, and you legitimately have not been taught or guided to use your influence for any better purpose than to degrade a community you thoroughly don’t understand, than I am embarrassed for you.
Your opinion, sir, is noted. Your intelligence and knowledge of the Greek system at NAU questionable.
Regardless of the field you are currently studying I believe the fine professors of NAU teach us to be objective. They teach us to hold our opinions high and with value, but to refrain from solidifying or expressing such opinions until we have a solid foundation on which to base them.
I challenge you to spend some time, one-on-one, with members of Greek Life; to participate in their philanthropic events; to go to ASNAU and meet the, predominately Greek, men and women that comprise your school’s student government; to attend NAU sporting events and watch Greek athletes, dancers and cheerleaders; to visit local elementary schools and food banks that receive monthly visits and tutoring from NAU Greeks. Do some research, see how many of your childhood heroes, idols and this country’s presidents have proudly worn letters of the Greek alphabet across their chest.
Should you complete the challenge and still wish to submit a well-researched, intelligent article condemning NAU Greek life I welcome it. Until then, please do not disgrace NAU and my degree with further writings.
Much appreciated.
So basically, what I’m getting from this article, is that the author is a nazi against Greek life.
This article is a disgrace. Obviously the writer has had no previous interaction with Greek life, or been involved in any of the activities. If so, this article would also mention key points like helping the community, building life long friendships, and being part of something bigger than yourself. Sure movies like House Bunny, Animal House, or the TV show Greek gives a different outlook, but it is a complete farce. This specially applies to Northern Arizona Greek Life who prides themselves on acceptance including a non hazing environment. Next time you write an article do some research because there is always two sides to every argument.
This article is very upsetting. Being apart of a fraternity or sorority great thing. And hazing has become extremely rare on the NAU campus along with other college campus’ across the country. Its sad that the only thing that is written about the greek system is the so called “hazing”. Why not write about the millions of dollars each year that are raised for charities across the country.
Not a Nazi. Simply a bad op-ed writer.
Congratulations sir, you have stirred controversy.
Only, it has been at the expense of your credibility as a writer, and the legitimacy of this paper and its editors.
Greek life is a complete joke. I have never seen the real purpose behind joining a frat or a sorority. I’m told it’s for the social calendar, which apparently consists of partying and making out with random people. I’m also told it’s for the philanthropic entity. The bettering of our society? Are you kidding me? A solid ninety percent of everyone involved in Greek life will talk sh*t behind someone’s back and make fun of somebody for unintelligent reasons- as if poking fun at people already isn’t a sign of immaturity and the inability to handle one’s on emotions and feelings. Go ahead frat boys, have fun with your fundraiser to help orphans and demean other people at the same time. The same applies for you too, sorority girls. Get wasted, make out with two guys that all your sisters have hooked up with before, go to a fundraiser the next day hungover and get catty about how “so-and-so are sluts.” The perfect image of hypocrisy.
Joey Chenoweth should be fired immediately. If the lumberjack had any standards and code of ethics, they would have never let this been published.
Oh, and one more thing:
Secret organizations? Seriously? Secret handshakes and passwords to get into the chapter room? Let’s get real, people. None of us are in high school anymore, let alone third grade.
I understand that this article is an opinion, but there is a point when opinions become ignorant with their lack of knowledge. Perhaps if other sources than “Animal House” were used, and some proof of interviews with those involved with Greek Life, your points might change if not the overall opinion. It cannot be that bad with the large percentage of NAU students are Greek.
As for Dr. Susan Lipkin, perhaps she should have done a test of how Greeks feel about these things, versus a random sample of people who know just as much as you do about Greek life, and learned it all from the Media.
Good luck with further articles in finding sufficient research, it will help in people believing you.
“Jealous people always poison their own banquet then eat it.”
First and foremost I am completely disgusted by such allegations made by someone who has no clue on what Greek life actually is. It prepares men and women for the tough road ahead known as life. Greek life offers not just social connections but also educational benefits and career opportunities. I feel that the author of this article is not only immature themselves for making false accusations and remarks, but is also envious of all Greek life members. If Greek life really offends you that much, why don’t you rush next fall and see what it is really like instead of slandering it without any actual evidence. A word of advice, think before you speak, you embarrass yourself and also the journalism community with such tasteless literature. Greeks are the future leaders of this world, while you will probably end up writing articles for some mediocre ten cent tabloid. Proud to be KA and most off I am proud to be GREEK!
Hopefully new incoming students, freshman and transfer, see what NAU’s journalism program has to offer.
Students and fellow Greeks of NAU:
Scandalous actions like boycotting the Lumberjack, talking about how hurtful it is to have your community defamed and vilified, and bringing up broken covenants on facebook groups only exacerbates this non-issue. Let me remind you, this is an OPINION article from a writer for the Lumberjack. Stop making your organizations look culpable of the actions implied in this piece of pseudo non-fiction by expressing rage and betrayal because someone wrote an interesting analysis that sheds light on the Ritual closet of being a Greek.
NAU has the worst journalism program in the country. Feel better after this article? HAAAAAA. Nothing you bring up is relevant.
Did you have a REALLY hard time in high school?
I go to ASU, and by the looks of this article, I made the right choice of universities.
This writer and article suck. He/she is a crybaby that probably just got blackballed from whatever sorority/fraternity they were trying to get into. Don’t write childish articles and accuse organizations of being childish and immature in them, because it just makes you look like a stupid piece of trash. Stoopid triiiicks.
I am unsure what the trouble is. This is an opinion piece, is it not? I feel like I just read a rather intense article earlier with someone bashing the catholic church with a lot more vindictiveness and hatred than this piece produced. In that article terms like “I want to punch the pope in the face”(or maybe slap?) were used. This piece was hardly that explicit. And despite how accurate these facts are I believe everyone reading it is aware that this is an opinion piece.He referenced his source for the statistics that he did have. Being so vehement in this denial only makes people from Greek life appear more guilty to me.
This is a great way to gain readers LumberJack Staff. Allowing articles to be published that bash a large portion of our campus population. The article needs for facts and research before you start making such atrocious claims and offending people. Instead of focusing on alleged wrong doings of the members of Greek Life you should focus on some good that they do.
Obviously a lot of you are upset about the article, which is understandable– no one likes to hear about the negative aspects of something that they enjoy being publicized. But I do not recall the author of the article ever stating he thought that the Greek system should be abolished, nor did I see him write anything about the NAU Greek system in particular. He wrote about reforming the system. And if you are as philanthropic, pious and well-meaning as you all have claimed to be, they would you not want to see reform in the unjust areas of the Greek system? If the NAU Greek system is as wonderful as claimed, then what do you even have to worry about? Although I am not the author of this piece, nor do I know his intentions, it seems to me what he is calling for is for the unjust actions that occur in SOME of the fraternities and sororities to be known to the general public, and for those involved to be held accountable. Do you not wish for the same thing? Do you think that the people involved in the hazing of the unfortunate person mentioned in the article to go unpunished? It seems to me that is all he is trying to say, that we should address this concern. And if the NAU system does not participate in any hazing or actions of the sort, then what do you have to worry about?
As an NAU recent graduate and Greek Life alumna, I am appalled at how hurtful and ignorantly written this article is. Let me remind you that NAU and its Greek Life organizations cannot be compared to any other university, because each campus is different. That being said, our Greek Life standards are those of the highest quality and respect, and hazing is absolutely not accepted. I think it is rather unfortunate that the author of this article, Joey Chenoweth, is casting an undeserved and close-minded judgement of our Greek Life system.
This article highlights an obviously unfortunate incident of a student at a different university. That kind of treatment of a human being is completely unacceptable, and I hope that authorities were involved. Those actions give Greek Life the worst name possible. All it takes is one incident like that highlighted every couple of years, for the entire community to be judged and easily stereotyped.
My challenge to you, Joey, is to take a deeper look at the daily activities and commitment that go into being Greek. Each organization has their own philanthropy, charitable causes, and academic standards that they hold to the highest regards. Sometimes these types of admirable qualities go overlooked when a negative story is released. Let us try to focus on the positive influence that Greek Life has to offer, rather than backstabbing a fellow organization on campus.
You are horrible and know nothing about greek life, I bet you have never donated anything to anybody or have never done community service in your life. As a fraternity we put in over one thousand hours of comminty service last semester alone. I kind of hope you get fired for this article, I bet you tried to get into one and they said no, so now you wanna get your revenge haha loser.
Yes, even though it is an Opinion piece, he is still one of the editors for the Lumberjack, hopefully this is the front page of his portfolio so that everyone he interviews with will see what a terrible writer he is
Alright, this is a little out of line. Do you have experience in Greek Life? Didnt think so. As a member of a Greek Organization, my only regret is that i didnt join earlier.
In Hoc
So back when I was not in Greek life, I also did not understand what they did and sometimes thought they came off as the stereotypical group that our culture has created for them. And guess what? I was jealous of them as well. However, I got to know Greek students because *GASP*, I wanted to make my own opinion, which this writer clearly did not do at all. I can look back on my own experience before being Greek and spot 100 percent that the writer is just bitter, ignorant, and jealous, as well as ill-informed and a horrible excuse for a writer. This article is an embarrassment to our university and a pathetic excuse for “journalism”. Before anyone talks trash about Greek life, let us compare how many community service hours THEY have done versus a Greek. Let us compare academics. Let us compare jobs after we graduate. Please, I will go student for student on this and I know for a fact that Greek life betters people a majority of the time. And really? Quoting Animal House? That movie came out when my DAD was in a fraternity. It is a dated and stereotypical view of Greek life. Yes, we like to have fun and we do it better than anyone else on campus. But we also have morals and values and my sisters mean more to me than I could ever explain. You mention immaturity and backstabbing as if that does not occur amongst non-Greek students. Are you kidding me? Because I have been around my sisters for so long and know them so well, yes, we get into fights, but because we are sisters we also forgive and forget and try to become better people because of it. Seriously, just throw your pen away and find another major because a one-armed monkey could have written a more intelligent article.
The lack of community and school spirit displayed in these comments depresses me. The fact that we speak so negatively about our campus and fellow students is just sad, and frankly exactly why I left NAU. Maybe if we all banded together to make our campus and programs the best they can be, we would be a more prominent university nationwide.
We are all Lumberjacks, regardless and we should act like we have stakes in the same things.
This is the most appauling article I have even written. Maybe you should do your research like a REAL author. Now I know why everyone is boycotting the lumberjack & I am joining them.
Great article! The comments are even better! You only forgot one important point, people pay thousands of dollars to go through all that! I know I dont like paying for my friends!
These people are just whiney Greek life kids who cant handle a little criticism of their precious greek system.
Its an opinion piece folks, not a research article, not an analysis of the pros and cons of greek life, not a report of an event. But thank you for proving his point that some of you are still in highschool!
You are all saying that by publishing this article, the Lumberjack will have less readers? LOOK AT ALL OF YOU WHO ARE COMMENTING!
How did he not do his research? He referenced an actual event at TCU, and, if you look in above comments, you can even see testimonials from frat pledges themselves that things like this happen more often than they should. Maybe you should do your research before commenting ignorantly.
What exactly is point of this article? I don’t get it. What I understand, is someone is just being stereotypical and angry. It’s like Hillary Clinton writing a letter to Birmingham. This doesn’t belong to a newspaper, it belongs to a personal blogging site.
Oh, and take a look at people that arent involved in greek life. Are you telling me they’re all as mature as adults? No, not at all. One thing that really irritates me is the fact that NAU allowed this to be published. DO you see large groups of independents doing community service? Maybe raising thousands of dollars (from one chapter alone) for Cancer research? Possibly saving a child who has cancer, by throwing a week long philanthrophic event?
Joe, so you’re saying there should be no opinion peices in newspapers? You can go ahead and tell the New York Times that. Good luck to you.
As a greek life member myself, I can agree and disagree with a number of things this article points out.
Agree
1. Sororities do nothing but push their girls around by making up stupid punishments for not abiding dumb rules like “no booze no boys”. I know a girl who got kicked out of her sorority for drinking on probation. You’re in college! Being a part of sorority does not make any more dignified than and independent. In fact, I prefer independent girls, because they don’t need 11 others around them to tell them what to do.
Disagree
1. Although some fraternities may haze, these are feats of strength. Frats do this to scare away the weaker kids. Something I support.
2. Greek life is a great way to have fun in college and make life long relationships. I have no regrets about joining a fraternity.
Lol, f— you n—
[Comment censored].
I am pretty sure we heard about the biggest story out of TCU, it was when Boise St. whooped them.
Although I disagree with you completely, I am not going to dismiss your opinion (which you are entitled to). What I am most offended by is your apathy towards stereotyping and judgment. It is an attitude like this that negates change and growth because, lets face it, if ‘everyone’ stereotypes then it MUST be right. The fact is that the system has reformed itself, and if you took a deeper look you would find that instances like these are the exception and not the norm. Rarely are stories of good deeds brought to the press, showing the juvenile and “high school” gossip-like qualities of journalists like yourself. Perhaps self-awareness should come before pointing your finger at everyone else.
Oh and let us not forget that Greek Life is voluntary. If a pledge is uncomfortable with whatever they are going through, they can quit. And Greek Life at NAU isnt even as intense as it is at other universities where the percentage of Greeks can be considerably higher. I mean, youre not an outcast here if youre not greek.
We should all just leave well enough alone and remind ourselves that we all go to the same school.
I love how all the people in Greek Life are calling fraternities “frats” in their comments. Isn’t that like some huge deal?
If one greek makes a mistake we are all responsible and get a bad reputation so if one person writes a bad article for the newspaper why dont we all just boycott the whole newspaper and hold them accountable. Do the world a big favor and stop wasting paper its bad for the environment and you dont have any readers who care to read your garbage anymore anyways.
Congratulations, you got your rise out of Greek Life. Flagstaff is a small close knit community, NAU is even smaller and Greek life is a family within all of it; so of course we will be defensive- it’s like kicking our little brother in the balls, you should expect to be junk-punched back. NAU cannot deny that hazing has gone on BUT it’s efforts to prevent it have been tremendous. Fraternities and Sororities alike have put anti-hazing clauses in their chapter bylaws to help prevent scandals that TCU has faced.
Greek life as a whole goes by ignored and put down more often than not and receives little praises in return for their efforts within the community. No one writes articles about fraternity chapters that get up at 6am on the weekends and pick up trash to clean-up the community. No one writes articles when sororities grant wishes of dying children or when they donate their time to the elderly.
It sounds like we’re avoided because of jealously issues by ‘independents’ and are only talked about when you all can put us down at your greatest convenience.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!! YUS!!!
I personally found this article entertaining. Not because of the writing but because of the response. I have nothing against greek life persay, although I would never join. The thing is that this is an OPINION article people, written in the OPINION section of the paper! There have been many other controversial articles written in the LJ recently but none of those had this kind of response. Why? I don’t know really, maybe some of this stuff hits a little too close to home? Hm… I know that you greek members will come back with “we do this for the community, we raise this money, we have these standards…” and for that I commend you. That’s great. If infact you do all these things, why take the time to acknowledge such a ‘proposterous’, ‘poorly written’ and ‘untruthful’ article. Continue on with your little greek lives, keep raising all that money, stop bashing the author of this piece, boycott the LumberJack(because we all know how much boycotting a FREE paper will do) and move on.
I think if you are not in greek life, you have no right to judge it. You have no idea what greek life is like and all the good that they do. So many kids at this school drink and do all this stuff you are stereotyping with greek life. Really look into it before you judge someone.
All of you are ignorant who think that all of Greek life is hazing and that those who do haze are only Greek organizations. Look at high school/ college sports teams and their hazing sometimes even worse than the few stories that come out about Greek life.
Should we disband sports from society?
Also research how many of our countries leaders are apart of Greek organizations. Should we just kick them out of office?
I gauntee you that those very few chapters that do haze are frowned upon by the entire greek system but also none of the hazing partakes in their ritual. You are the problem with our society.
Joey you are an idiot and have no true factual proof on the subject. Learn to research your stories further before you write them.
Opinion or not, this article is a disgrace &the Lumberjack is definately going to lose a lot of readers because of this. Joey, not only did your article sound like it was written by a fifth grader, but your “facts” were apalling. Pretty much, the rest of the articles had something to do with NAU or Flagstaff and yours did not. Obiviously because NAU Greek Life is nothing like the article you just wrote.
I was hesitant to leave a comment because I know one of the reasons Mr. Chenoweth wrote this article was to cause a stir. I am an Alum of NAU and former member of Greek Life. I understand this article is an opinion piece. I also understand that The Lumberjacks constant slander against Greek Life can date back to before I was on campus. When is the last time the Lumberjack has come out and reported on an Philanthropic Event a Greek Life organization has put on? I dont remember seeing a Lumberjack reporter at Delta Delta Deltas last Jacks at Bat softball tournament to raise money for St. Judes Childrens Research Hospital or at Pi Beta Phis Relay for Life 5k Run? The Lumberjack has decided to be like every other biased news outlet, and only publish one side of the story. If the Lumberjack would actually concentrate a tiny bit of brain power (if they can spare it) on writing something positive about the Greek Society, less people would be joining the public backlash of your newspaper, and maybe one day, actually consider you a news source.
http://jackcentral.com/news/2009/01/fraternity-suspended-for-hazing-activities/
As a former journalism major, I am appalled at how unprofessional this article is–even more that it was published at all. I hope the writer realizes that many of the most successful people today were greek, and how much greeks are involved in communities and good causes. It is completely unnecessary to continually put NAU greeks down for a writer’s self-satisfaction. Until you’ve joined a fraternity or sorority and really know what it has to offer, keep your opinions to yourself. Greeks get enough humiliation from other forms of the media, and we don’t need any more. When you know our rituals and initiation processes (which are kept secret for reasons like this and from people like you–the writer of this article), then you can make judgements. Until then, stay out of our business and we’ll stay out of yours. “The Lumberjack” needs to highly reconsider who they are hiring these days. The writer of this article has the mentality and level of jealousy of a 5-year-old.
Shouldnt the brand be backwards? otherwise its gonna read keerg efil? I would rather have Greek Life than that…
OPINION OR NOT THIS JERK VIOLATED THE 1ST AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AS LONG AS IT DOWN NOT PUT DOWN ONE PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE, AND YOU CANNOT PUBLISH SOMETHING THAT HAS THE INTENT OF HURTING SOMEONE ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, THE WHOLE WRITING STAFF FOR THIS SHITTY NEWSPAPER NEEDS TO BE FIRED, GREEKS DO MORE FOR THIS SCHOOL THAN YOUR DUMB ASS NEWSPAPER COULD EVER DO. FACTS ARE FACTS, JOEY YOUR REAL TOUGH BEHIND PAPER OR ON THE INTERNET. NUFF SAID.
AND IN RESPONSE TO THE LINK ABOVE THAT’S WHY THAT FRATERNITY IS NO LONGER ON CAMPUS, THEY BROKE THE RULES AND WERE PUNISHED…. OBVIOUSLY… YOU PEOPLE ARE SO IGNORANT WHO ARE SUPPORTING THIS ARTICLE, JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT GET IN DOESN’T MEAN YOU GOTTA HATE ON EVERYONE WHO TAKES A LOT OF PRIDE IN THE GREEK SYSTEM…. OBVIOUSLY THEIR IS PRIDE OTHERWISE THERE WOULD NOT BE THIS BIG OF A DISCUSSION.
If you fire him for writing this article, THAT WOULD BE VIOLATING THE FIRST AMENDMENT! Do you frat boys learn anything?
A fraternity is a small secret society that provides its members the selective incentive of nodding silently at one another, or smirking while giving each other a secret handshake. The selective incentive also includes the knowledge that you and your “brothers” both took part in the same likewise secret initiation rite. The silent nod really says something like, “You and I had an experience with the same goat. Props,” or, “That cucumber was bumpy but I am pretty sure we are both better people because of it.”
Meanwhile, the non-fraternity males think, “Wow, that nod is cool and mysterious and all but I really am concerned about the secret initiation rite that may or may not contain a goat.”
Lower income non-fraternity males who are able to look past this say, “Well I think I can handle the goat thing but these dues are awfully high!”
Due to the two above reasons, joining a fraternity has less appeal to me than joining the local country club — while I must deal with typical BMW owners in both, the country club will at least preserve my dignity.
Whoever allowed you to write a train wreck of an opinion piece on Greek Life should probably be fired, as should you.
The fact that you cite Animal House as a source for this supposed article shows how blatantly ignorant you are to what those of us do. Yes, I’m in a fraternity. Big deal. However, unlike your stereotype of “frat boys”, I’m on the entertainment board at my university (not gonna name names), on the active committee for the end of the year show, and am currently involved in raising money for children with cancer, on top of being on the Dean’s List. Yes, there are those who continue to do stupid stuff in the name of “ritual”, but this tiny minority of idiots doesn’t represent us as a whole. When you get off your high horse, try looking through FIPG policy (the program that every fraternity in the Inter-Fraternity Council HAS to follow), and realize that this is serious. I HAVE seen State Police haul people away in handcuffs for hazing; this isn’t a joke.
TL;DR (for those of you who don’t think a Greek can have a high GPA and write a well-thought out rant):
Get a clue. This isn’t Hollywood, and we sure as hell don’t condone your ‘facts’ of Greek Life.
@ John Doe. Sir, you are shifting the argument to a different place. Of course newspapers need opinion section. What is written is not called opinion, it’s called bitching. Or if it’s opinion, it’s not very professional. I mean eveyrone has their opinions, I can say this girl is a poonberry, soom politicians are a bunch of thieves, but seriously, print it out for the school newspaper. Whos’ the paper’s audience in the first place? The students right? What was accomplished? I’m part of Greek Life and I respect the author’s opinion. Do I agree with him, no and nothing’s wrong with that. But is this necessary for publicity? I’m pretty sure some other folks here wouldn’t be pissed if this isn’t published. Everywhere we go, people will have mixed opinions about Greek Life. But what is the credibility of the author? Does he have sufficient knowledge about Greek Life? Greek Life is enraged because maybe they know more than he does and the respective writer is generalizing them. Hazing will happen everywhere, it won’t be stopped. It just so happens that friendshad too much of a good time and did something stupid and so happens they are part of Greek Life. But what about those who are devout philanthropists? Yeah no one will write about them and take the time to appreciate them, but they sure don’t deserve the bashing.
I think this is a bigger issue than just an opinion article. If someone wrote an “opinion” about my family as horrible as this was, I would be enraged. And that’s what my sorority is to me….my family. We, as greeks, do so much good in the community; its a shame that people have to judge us by going off of what hollywood portrays.
I want to first say that I disagree with everything this article is about and also believe it is very poorly written. I am a former Greek and know what a individual can learn and how much they can grow just by going though the traditions and rituals. I was only in Greek Life for a year and those were some of the best times of my life, not because of the parties and drinking (which 70% of colleges students take part of) but because of the camaraderie I shared with my pledge brothers and life lessons I learned from my fraternities beliefs. No where else can you have experience that life changing while at a young age.
Now that is out of the way Greek Life needs to stop slandering this newspaper. Everyone is outraged by this article because the writer is making assumptions based of off a fraternities actions at TCU. You are angry because he is taking one incident and applying it to the industry that is Greek Life, but in your rage and anger towards this newspaper are you not doing the same thing? You are requesting a boycott of a whole newspaper due to the poor judgment of one naive newspaper writer. I agree with you the writer should not be allowed to write after a piece that if filled with arrogance and total disregard to journalism. On the contrary it is a opinion piece that the newspaper does not agree with and the writer does not express the views of the paper. The writer is responsible for his opinions. Some the most popular journalist in the world write about controversies and there are thousands of people who disagree with them, but the there are thousands of other readers who love them. We have a great school newspaper and the students who are upset need to keep their opinions aimed at the writer where thy belong.
What I don’t understand about the soroity/fraternity communities is that their socities are all secret and “outsiders” don’t have the privilege to know what really goes on behind closed doors; yet they’re the first ones to get angry when something bad is said about them. Maybe if outsiders were allowed to understand what was really happening in the first place (not necessarily in detail, but just something) then maybe all this judgemental nonsense would just stop- from both sides. Education is the first step toward understanding and acceptance.
On the other hand, I have a lot of friends who are “Greek” (I put that in quotations not out of disrespect, but because to me only people from Greece or of actual Greek descent can be Greek). I understand the frustration because they are really good people. I think it’s interesting to see the divide between “Greeks” and non-”Greeks” at a school where, to be honest, Greek Life isn’t all that important to the students and a school where the soroities and fraternities define the student population.
Maybe one day, everybody at NAU will be able to co-exist peacefully. In the meantime, what if Greek Life and ResLife or another office got together and organized a sessions to educate students about Greek Life- rather than focusing on recruitment of students. I imagine people want to feel wanted, not recruited. Just a thought.
While I do not condone the author for attacking greek life, I find it ridiculous the volume of comments on this article. No offense, but there are so many more issues in the world that deserve more attention than greek life. While greek life has its benefits and its faults, it is not the most important thing in existence. instead of whining about some kid who probably did not get into a fraternity and is just venting, you should be focusing your energy on something more important.
I may note that NAU’s greek life (lowercase intentional) was NOT mentioned in this piece. AT ALL.
If NAU’s fraternities and sororities are in fact the epitome of what greek life is and should be, then pledges and actives have nothing to worry about as you are conducting yourself in an honorable manner. Hold your heads high (in unison, of course) and let it roll off your backs. You’re better than this, clearly. What’s a poorly circulated publication going to do, really, to you. Especially when they don’t point the finger at your specific organization.
Gross overreaction on this scale indicates there may be something on your side to hide. Consider the public perception.
That being said, people have opinions. I’m actually more offended by the Avatar column last week, which essentially said the Catholic church was worse that what, to you, this article seems to say about the organization you’re with. People are entitled to these opinions. And the qualification to express such opinions is the voice and the courage to have it published. Ad hominem arguments are simply invalid. Attack the judgement of the individual, or invite them to see your side. But the ever cliché and stereotypical “whoever wrote this has the opinion of a 6th grader.” Darling, that kind of argument belongs back in Kindergarden–”I know you are but what am I” anyone?
Taste is the issue in question here, not intelligence. And taste is relative to what individuals (or groups that impose themselves on individuals, for that matter) think is right.
You realize that the time you spend getting irritated about this and demanding justice could be spent, oh i don’t know, saving the world through all the philanthropy y’all do. Reacting like this certainly does not shake down those stereotypes.
Rituals are supposed to be kept secret within each different sorority and fraternity. Does the author have efficient knowledge of the rituals before criticizing them? Is he a member of Greek Life in the first place to write an opinion about Greek Life practices whom independents are not supposed to know about? I think that’s one big mistake here. And publishing a mistake is another mistake. This is not even a matter of being defensive anymore as being part of Greek Life, or criticizing another’s opinion. With all the author’s respect, the real question is whether the author credible enough and logical in his presentation of evidence and argument to publish his opinion whose audience is specifically the student body of NAU. Not America, not TCU, NAU.
John doe here’s some freedom of speech for ya: you’re a tool who cannot socially function in today’s world and therefor makes you completely incappable of joining a fraternity. I in fact am not greek but i still feel that just like you, the author has no clue what greek life actually includes. I doubt you do community service or donate to cancer research like these kids do. So think before you speak, what makes you better. The world is better with greek life in it. How much have you donated to hati relief. Suck on a lemon
This article is superficial and based off speculation. It is riddled with myths about fraternities and sororities (and quotes from a farce?) as well as an obvious bias against the Greek system. The fact that this made it to publication is an obvious sign that the Lumberjack, not Greek life, is in need of reform.
I love how thoroughly you obviously researched the topic of this article, Joey. Before you go generalizing the Greek system in its entirety for what happened to ONE person in ONE chapter at ONE university, I’d actually TALK to a few people involved in Greek Life and get your facts straight. You’re obviously not a member of Greek Life, so you really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.
So, after reading this article it becomes quite apparent that Joey Chenoweth has no idea what he is speaking of. First off, he lumps all individuals in the Greek system as people that may or may not partake in “hazing” but that they are all guilty or should be held accountable. Hey Joey, that’s right! There is a term for what you are describing, it’s called hazing look it up. I’m sure if you did a little research farther than what you feel occurs you would realize that hazing has historically occurred in many organizations for many years. I see that you, however, have taken the opportunity to only single out a few bad apples, most of which aren’t really relevant to your story (i.e. Lobbyist). Maybe you should take a shot at our US Military, or past Presidents or hey, why not any other organization that has requirements for members to join. As a former member of Greek life at NAU and a member of the human race, I am quite aware that there are some individuals that will always have the mentality to haze other individuals, but I guarantee that you calling all Greek organizations to the carpet for this behavior is in no way going to accomplish anything. When in fact, Greek life and its participants are greatly involved in community service, in service to their organization and yes I’ll say it cultivating young relationships and friendships that DO last through the years.
Now, seeing as I am a strong advocate of Greek life and shockingly also a lobbyist, I would like you to be aware that I never hazed an individual in my college career, and I don’t haze people or politicians in my professional life either. Shocking to say it, but there is such of thing of treating people with the respect that they deserve and doing things to physically harm or mentally harm an individual is in no way how I operate and I’m willing to bet that most of my sorority sisters and colleagues don’t treat people in this matter either. By the way, the majority of successful people I work with were also members of Greek life. Maybe this is because being a part of an organization teaches individuals how to appropriately interact with others and be productive/producing members of society.
Your article contradicts itself by stating that these so–called incidents are filled with alcohol but yet when you bring up the idea of “no boys no booze” you call that to the floor as being a bad thing. So, what your saying is friendship should be based on drinking as long as you don’t hurt anyone, and that friendship built on sober clear minds are of no worth. Seriously, if you’re going to write a piece of crap article like this, you might want to actually re-read it for continuity before publishing. Shame on you and your editor.
Your article is full of fallacies and is not backed up by any proven facts. For God sake you are going to talk about someone meeting Oprah – news alert, she is not the end all be all of information and better yet- who really cares what she say. Why don’t you stop worrying about meeting the deadline for your article, which I assume is sometime around Oprah’s airtime, and spend a little more time getting your facts right.
Anyways, I am not sure if you have researched this in your time period at college, but the news industry is suffering, especially published media. So, I pity you that when you leave college you will have very few employers that are interested in you, especially if your portfolio contains articles full of erroneous arguments that are not founded on anything other than your opinion. So, maybe in your remaining days, months or years in college you should leave your cubicle, experience some sunlight at realize that there is life beyond your words. Hey, maybe you could join Greek Life!
hes right. screw you guys. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Agreed, Joey. “If you got 14 people hatin’ on you, you better figure out how the [heck] to get to 16 before the summer gets here.” Haters gonna hate. It seems like there is a need for some college students to find the love and splendor in fraternities and sororities. That need is terribly depressing because their principles seem to class directly with their hazing/acceptance into it all. I’m pretty sure the only people defending it are the ones who are probably in a frat or sorority and even then, I think they know it’s the truth.
Maybe anyone within these groups will see the contradictions they create within their own little community. Maybe they will realize that they need the positive power of themselves to make the community around them better, and not a group who makes you do ridiculous tasks to be “one of them.”
Honestly, if it were me, I’d like my “group of friends” to accept me for who I am. Not groups who go out dressing exactly the same, having people mistake them as a cult; not groups who make you talk and act the exact same way; not groups who BRAND an incoming “fellow frat braaa.”
In short, Joey: great job. I’m even more proud to have worked under you during a period in my life. The papers that were returned to the newsroom… even better. It means you definitely stirred some [stuff] up. Hahaaaaa!
It is a shame to see slander of greek life like this at NAU, we should be supporting our Greek Life. I truly believe that our social organizations are the back bone of our school and its spirit, it only takes one idiot to destroy NAUs image. There is a word for this, its called “SLANDER”. This is a prefect example of ignorance, get your facts straight!
For all the people throwing vicious insults Joey’s way, just know this: he is expressing his own opinion. That is what an Op-Ed article is. Is it shodddy reporting? It could be. But, the article never specifically states or talks about NAU’s Greek Life.
There is now a group on Facebook named “Boycott the Lumberjack”. If you wish to join that, remember this: When you are boycotting a publication based off of ONE article, then you do not understand that are other sections of the newspaper that you probably be missing out on such as News, Sports, A&E, etc. But, I do find it funny that whoever created this group does not understand that “the” in the group name should be capitalized but thats beside the points.
I have no opinion concerning Greek Life. I have friends and know people that are members of frats and sororities and I know people that aren’t a part of it.
The only thing you are doing by posting these comments and opinions is bringing more publicity and attention to our newspaper. For that, we thank you.
Thank you for your opinion.
I respect you for having the courage to write an article that affects a majority here at NAU. All of you who support this article are right, it is an opinion and in many places a truth. All of you who disagree are also right, points may have been off and slander is an issue. The point is that all of us including the writer are both right and wrong.
Greek life is mysterious, distasteful, and at times dangerous. There will always be more cases like the one mentioned here. Even those who are in Greek life here do admit there is always something that could and should be changed. But the same can be said about our entire campus in general.
I challenge all of us to think of this article in a new light. Consider our university as a single culture, with people Greek life being those who share similar ideals. All of us are still individuals in the same community and it is a community with many problems. There are acts of violence, aggression, back talk, social controllers, abusive friends, drugs and drinking, all at potentially fatal levels.
This is my opinion: as one culture we need to address all of the issues we raise. We all are guilty of what we accuse.
However maybe by working together perhaps we can bring change, instead of empty words.
So many of you are accusing Chenoweth of the same “crimes” of which you are guilty: bias and failure to research. While I do not expect everyone to be an expert on the Greek system, it is scary how many of you are clearly uneducated about the First Amendment. There is nothing in this piece that violates the First Amendment. First, check the little tab at the top of the site. It is clearly labeled opinion. There is bias in opinion, and the source of his bias should not even be up for debate. Second, in order for this piece to have violated the First Amendment, the author would have to be guilty of libel. In order to prove libel, the plaintiffs would have to prove that their reputations have been damaged (if the Greek system were determined to be “public figures,” then malice would also have to be proved). You will never be able to prove that the reputation of the Greek system was damaged by this piece.
In fact, everyone here who is attacking the author and/or his column simply comes across as defensive.
However, you -as Chenoweth – are entitled to your opinion … it is guaranteed by the First Amendment.
Oh, hello. Its me, the 1st Amendment. Just letting you know that people are allowed to publish whatever they want, regardless of hurt feelings or pre-conceived social norms of what you might consider “unfair”. Clearly youve never read a tabloid. And by the way, opinion columnists have a special freedom called I can write whatever the hell I want because it’s my opinion. And while you read back over the words “freedom of the press”, look up libel while you’re at it and see if this column matches ANY of it’s elements. And hey Greek kids: you really give yourselves away with your writing, what with all the really cool texting shorthand and bullshit arguments that rant and rave and try to save your already dogshit reputation.
I was in a sorority while attending NAU and had an amazing experience. While I was there, NAU President was in Greek Life as well as many other student council members and other prominent roles in organizations across campus that ALL of you were a part of at one point.
This article does put Greek Life to shame, but the fact that it is completely unresearched and so incredibly vague and stereotypical puts NAU and its publication The Lumberjack to absolute true shame.
–It is a challenge in itself to defend the honor of an NAU education against close minded people who don’t think our degrees measure up to ASU or U of A grads, but to have this type of blatant representation permanently on paper helps them prove their point.–
I have an idea…why dont you write about the thousands and thousands of dollars that the Greeks raise every year for multiple organization and non-profits? Have you helped kids learn how to read or fund kids with cancer so that they can get the best treatment in the world? Because the Greeks at NAU have been doing it for a pretty long time. Wheres that story?!
i love how you all say you dont haze or believe in it.. well, let me just throw this out there.. that, this is in fact hazing all your comments against him, hating, and calling him names of such sort..from one article. It is so sad. honestly. and to find out that some of you greek people actually were out throwing the papers in trash cans.. i hope you realize that, that is considered theft. keep it up greek life, iam so proud of the way youre handling this.
I was always taught one thing ” if you’re not hated, you aren’t doing your job. ” congrats joey..you are an incredible writer, opinion writer, reporter, and person. i am proud of you. keep it up. journalists aren’t supposed to be liked anyhow.. they report the truth.
“All my body have the same haircut…”
BOYS*
Wow. Is this really the level of writing accepted in the NAU Journalism program?! My hopes for future journalists emerging from NAU just sank.
I agree with many of the comments above that this article was naive (at best) and lacked proper research. If you had paid attention during any of your classes, you might have learned that sighting research if your work means actually doing a little bit yourself. In stead, you chose to make unsubstantiated claims against the entire Greek community, throwing them in the mix with the idiots from TCU.
Rather than sounding like a responsible journalist, you sound like someone who was loudly rejected by the Greek system. Am I stereotyping? Perhaps. However, temper-tantrums in the campus newspaper tend to make you appear that way.
Oh, by the way, I am not a member of the Greek system, nor am I affiliated with the Greek system in anyway.
First off, I do agree and disagree with this article and a lot of the comments that followed.
1. Do fraternities and Sororities haze on NAU campus.
Most of the Greek life has chosen not to “haze” but to instead maybe take the pledges camping and have them set things up or even attend meetings at random times where attendance is required. But I have seen Greek Life at Mountain View tase some pledges, and I have seen pledges complete ridiculous requirements just so they have the chance to be initiated.
2. Greek Life supports communities
Yes I have seen tons of Greek members donate their time to doing something good, are they always happy about having to sit at a table and ask for donations to help a charity? No, but just the fact that they are trying does count. I would love to see more articles published about Greek Life’s philanthropy work, because they do in fact try.
I myself have chosen not to join the Greek Life here on campus. In the beginning I believed the stereotypical rumors, “you party every night” “There all stuck up rich snobs, who have nothing better to do than to wear the same shirt or sweater.” I have a lot of friends who are involved in a fraternity or Sorority and they set the record straight for me. The rumor you party every night sadly is true. While it is not a mandatory requirement to party every night. A lot of people in the View get drunk every night, sometimes entire wings. But I also learned about the good that the Greek Communities are spreading throughout this town and world. The reason I have chosen not to join is because its really just not for me, I have limited time as it is and throwing in meetings and social events not to mention philanthropy events would more than likely overwhelm me.
Boycotting the Lumberjack honestly, while inspired, is a really dumb idea. Its a free newspaper that is circulated on this campus and in the community. There is really no way Greek Life will be able to stop the Lumberjack, including the facebook group.
People have the right to express their opinions, its their choice, but if you do, you have to be prepared to accept any criticism, whether its good or bad including Greek Life’s comments. If you really want to get your voice out there, here’s an idea, make your own paper. Advertise all the good your doing and circulate it around campus, then people would probably start to believe that you guys are doing stuff and maybe even want to join!
Some Greek Facts to know.
http://studentorgs.gwu.edu/greekspeak/extras/nationalstatistics/
Dear poor, misguided Joey,
I was once a dedicated and responsible member of Greek Society during my time spent at NAU. As a current resident in Flagstaff, I still participate and volunteer within my organization because I both respect and admire what they stand for and how they are able to give back to the community as a whole. Not only was I involved in my own chapters’ philanthropy events, but as a collective group, all Greeks supported each others charities. I challenge you to come out to some of the events this Spring, open to Greeks and independents alike, and then take the time, effort, and dare I say it, responsibility of being a reporter and interview some of the members from each chapter. Perhaps then you could publish a follow up on what real Greek life is after you’ve gotten some much needed perspective. Feel free to e-mail me, I would love to take you to lunch sometime to enlighten you on how enriching and fulfilling being a member of Greek Society can be.
The level of writing? Are you kidding me? If you even took the time to read some of Joey Chenoweth’s stuff you would quickly take that statement back. Stop being bitter because someone is questioning the ethics of all of Greek Life. Nowhere in this article does it say anything about NAU Greek Life except for the mention of the incident of the Pike’s last year. If you can;t handle criticism that’s too bad, because Greek Life can sure dish it after reading all this shit talking you guys have done all day. Lets grow up, it is an opinion article which has research in there regarding the TCU story, opinion stories don’t even need research. And how should he “research” this is every little things you lame ass kids do is a secret and a tradition. Get over it, Joey just said what I consider the majority of people think. And before you say “You are bitter because you got rejected from a a frat,” that is not possible, just look at TKE. They let any pathetic looking loser in there. Good job Joey!
Wow! look at all of us, we are expressing our OPINIONS just as the author has. Those of you who say the article is bias, well yes it is. It is biased just like all of your comments! We are all free to leave our comments and OPINIONS here thanks to the 1st Amendment. Whether you like it or not, that’s the truth.
Everyday, and every week OPINION articles are published in newspapers and tabloids across the country. Not everyone will agree with or be happy about them but they are still published. The authors do not write them to intentionally hurt anyone or on the other hand, to make them happy. They are simply expressing how they feel about certain subjects just as all of us are doing on this page now.
Bottom line, people are flawed. There is no organization in the world that is perfect, Greek Life included. But I would like to mention that members of Greek Life are not the only college students that drink, make stupid decisions when drunk or haze. The legal definition of hazing is so broad now that forcing someone at anytime to do anything that they don’t want to in order to be in some sort of group, Greek or not, is considered hazing. Greek Life just makes the headlines for it all the time. Being part of a true fraternity or sorority is truly an experience that can only be understood by the people who have done it. I love my fraternity and I will stand behind it till the day I die. Maybe you should try rushing a fraternity and really experience it.
Joey,
It saddens me that your experience at NAU has left you alone and angry. The fact that you have directed these unfortunate feelings toward Greek Life saddens me more. This is past weekend I spend three fabulous days with eight of my fellow sorority members. As somewhat recent graduates we have all scattered around the world and rarely see each other. This girls weekend provided late night gossip sessions, non stop laughter and true friendship. Without NAU Greek Life, our campus experience would have been incomplete. Yes, from an outsiders perception the “No Boys No Booze” may sound like a lame excuse to control members. But the truth is, the liquor free, manless weekends are some of my best college memories. Too bad you deprived yourself of lifelong friendships and amazing memories simply because you found the Ritual beneath you.
RE: I have an idea…why dont you write about the thousands and thousands of dollars that the Greeks raise every year for multiple organization and non-profits? Have you helped kids learn how to read or fund kids with cancer so that they can get the best treatment in the world? Because the Greeks at NAU have been doing it for a pretty long time. Wheres that story?!
Response:
Have you!??
I love how all greek life members love to gloat about their contributions to society and the community. What have YOU personally, on an individual level done?
The answer is probably minimal. Just because your sisters and brothers donated $5 to some charity or you are in the same frat/sorority that built a wing in a hospital by raising money with wet t-shirt contests does NOT mean you actively did it.
Why do you guys just piggyback on each other’s contributions? Why do you ignore the millions of people that contribute to society and the community without paying $500 a semester to wear your letters? Do something on your own – stop claiming the “accomplishments” of the chapter as your own.
I completely applaud you, Joey, as this is a very well-written article. It kind of makes me laugh how defensive some people were about it, and how they even stooped down to the level of bashing you with strong insults and expletives. It makes me wonder if the reason why they took it so defensively is because it hit close to the truth (in their case)? It certainly shows how immature some people can be too.
Someone mentioned earlier that they would be mad if their family were bashed like this, but let me ask everyone something: if someone violently ridiculed your family and you absolutely knew what they were saying was inaccurate, then would you even care what that person was saying in the first place? I know I wouldn’t, so quit throwing a temper tantrum. Joey didn’t even say he was specifically bashing NAU fraternities in the article, so people who did say this in their comments brought it into the discussion on their own. Also, what’s even funnier is how people say there were no credible facts in the article. I’m pretty sure Joey even gave credit to where it was due for the facts he had.
I’ll say one more thing for all of the Greek members on here and others who responded so violently; I’m actually joining a music fraternity here on the NAU campus, and I’m not offended by Joey’s article at all because I know the fraternity I’m joining doesn’t make new members do anything humiliating or morally wrong. So why are you taking things so offensively if you know your fraternity doesn’t do these things? I don’t know, just something to think about.
Please keep writing, Joey. I look forward to reading more in the future.
Hahahahaha.
Wait, is the greek life system at NAU seriously discussing “boycotting” this free university publication?
Not only is this laughable but an incredible waste of effort. As others have mentioned, the ways in which you (the greeks boycotting) are directing your effort could be used to raise money for Haiti victims, contribute something to the university of value or participate in your academics.
Your Facebook page is anonymous – as are most of your comments. You are besmirching the purpose of your collaborated efforts before you’ve even started.
What’s more pathetic is that, as someone else stated, there are serious issues that demand attention. At the local, national and global levels there are more newsworthy and pressing issues that you COULD be spending time discussing.
Why are there so many comments here? You guys are ‘boycotting’ the newspaper? So…is that why you’re providing the Lumberjack with thousands of unique web hits and web interactions? Or is your copying & pasting the story link to your friends going to do that too? What?
You COULD be rallying support on Facebook for Haiti Relief, donating your time to the hospital, teaching kids to read (as many of your greeks have commented that this is one of your charities…although it’s clear many of you cannot read), or discussing the Health Care bill.
However, I invite the entire greek system at NAU, what’s left of it anyway, (as many of the chapters have been removed from campus due to hazing, etc.), to boycott this FREE, university newspaper.
Let’s face it, you weren’t going to spend this time studying or talking politics anyway.
Invite your BIGS & littles to the anonymous Facebook group for blind and shameless rallying in support of “boycotting” the free newspaper.
Dear Piggyback,
Our philanthropy does not just include raising money. We work at the battered womans shelter downtown, the food bank, the animal shelter, the elderly center and many other places in the community. So do not sit there and tell us that we “piggyback” on our brothers/sisters backs. We all go out into the community and make it better by helping those in need. I dont see any other organization that actually goes and volunteers at the Special Olympics or at the hospital. So do not sit there and tell me I havent spent many hours in the community providing a service for the better, because that is exactly what we do. Yes, we donate large amounts of money to charities we feel passionate about, but I ask what have YOU done to help someone in need lately? We are proud to wear our letters because the community recognizes us as dedicated volunteers.
It is fascinating to see the Greeks say this oped piece is poorly written and terrible and everything else, while typing responses like: “Greek life is so much more then you have in your tiny little head, but since you are a closed minded individual who was obviously a loser in high school and continued that role in college you wouldn’t know what Greek life does,” and “joey just cuz u cant get in a frat and u have no knowledge of frat life doesnt give u the right to make shit up.” You people are digging this hole deeper for yourselves with each petty, nonsensical reply. Get over it. Big people don’t throw fits just because someone doesn’t like them.
by commenting on this article and talking about The Lumberjack isnt boycotting, its helping. The LJ is shattering web records and using that to sell ads and make money. If people really want to boycott, they should quit helping LJ get publicity and website hits. The paper has only benefited from this.
Here’s some statistics for you…
*76% of the current United States Senators and Congressmen are fraternity men.
*40 of the 47 Supreme Court Justices since 1910 have been fraternity men.
*All but 3 United States Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men.
*Fraternity men make up only 2% of the population!
*Approximately 80% of the top executives in Fortune 500 are fraternity men.
Oh wait, looks like we run this country and you’ll end up gettin no where
John W.,
A Big person doesn’t tear down another person based on hearsay.
A person outside Greek Life trying to describe Greek Life is pointless and their opinions are worthless. It can be compared to a person describing the taste of icecream when they have never even tried it.
I would have much more respect for this “Journalist” if they had tried Greek Life then written this article.
I agree that this article points out some hilarious points about Greek Life, but at the same time I agree that it’s not great journalism. There is an opinion section in most newspapers so you don’t have to publish your opinion as an “article”. I find Greek Life completely pointless, and I think it’s funny how this “article” is causing so much conversation. I also think journalism should be well-researched and unbiased facts presented to the public in a way to inform and make the reader more knowledge about a subject. This “article” didn’t do that at all. I love the journalism department at NAU, but the Lumberjack is mostly shit by students who are trying a little too hard to come up with “interesting” articles. Greek life isn’t interesting. If we stop giving them something to bitch about life would be a lot better so why not write about something important for once?
I’d also like to see NAU’s statistics of how much money the Greek Life Community raises every year and how many hours we spend for philanthropy and then compare it the rest of NAU’s student body, because im pretty sure I hardly see anyone not in Greek Life at NAU doing either. We make THE difference in this community, while most of these “independents” do not.
How many offended Greeks does it take to realize they’re ignorant?
Answer: Who cares? I’m still laughing at how The Lumberjack is getting so much exposure by Greek hissy-fits.
Well I cannot help but think that his point has been proven. The Greek community does not have much to stand on other that a big pile of bull shit.
How can you say greeks are ignorant? They are defending themselves. They know better than anyone about greek life. If you are not in greek life you can’t judge. Of course you only see the bad because that is what you want to see. Greek life puts in countless hours of community service and raises thousands of dollars for charity. I don’t see how any of this is bad or why you joey, think you are better than the them. They do so much more than you do. If this was all a big joke and a way to get exposure for the Lumberjoke, that’s pathetic. You knew the only way to get press was to invlove greeks? You are obviously not doing a good enough job on your own then. People who agree either aren’t greek and want to be or just put others down to make themselves feel better. Do any of you actually spend any time with greeks? If so you would know this article is a JOKE.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Get a life.
Veronica Irwin,
People outside Greek Life cant describe or have opinions on Greek Life? Thats absurd, and childish. Describing the taste of ice cream is a stupid example. Here is a better one: I don’t need to know the board of directors of Nike to have an opinion of their tendency to exploit child workers, even if Nike donates to charity. Every Greek and Greek-defending (which are more likely just Greek in disguise) reply seems to have that same message- you don’t know, you cant judge. Thats nonsense. Want to have rational discussion? Keep your arguments in line with reason, not some shrouded fantasy Greek life concocts and uses as a recruiting tool.
Well, being an Alum of NAU and Greek Life, a little advice Joey, I would highly suggest to not put this piece in your portfolio when you graduate. One, because the best Op-ed pieces are supported by research and second of all, why are you writing about Greek Life? The people that actually your paper, dont care. I think we have heard it all and honestly, it just gets old after awhile. Im sure theres a lot more going on for you to make fun of. No matter what though, I will always defend Greek Life. Im damn proud Im an Alum of Alpha Omicron Pi and was apart of the Greek system at Northern Arizona. I understand being concerned and what not, but this article was clearly not written out of concern. Because the story about the TCU guy is four sentences long, while the rest of the article is just making fun of what you think Greek Life is. Hi. Again, your readers dont care.
“A good portion of Greek Life is made up of people who actually enjoyed all the stupidity of high school to the point where they just had to continue it in college.” Right. Because you know personally? Most people in college all do the same thing, whether or not they are apart of an organization. Being in Greek Life has nothing to do with what your talking about. They experience being in college, just like everyone else. And honestly, who cares? If you werent apart of Greek Life, you wouldnt understand the experiences. And thats okay. And saying the Lumberjack is getting exposure is like saying the Cubs are going to win the World Series this year. Its sad and not likely. Greek life makes up the majority of campus…and most Greeks have friends outside of Greek Life. When you offend a friend, sister, or brother you have to deal with the whole family. And it looks to me, there are a lot of people upset.
The article Joey wrote was not an academic research paper or an in-depth news article; it is a staff editorial. It is an opinion. And while yes, it could have been supported by more research, it would not have changed the story. The students of Greek Life at NAU would still be bitter. After skimming most of these 100+ comments, I was disappointed. If so many of you think you could write a better article, then what is keeping you from doing so? If so many of you are pissed off about your organizations being stereotyped and generalized by the media, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. If you so strongly believe no one has a right to write about Greek Life without having experienced it and performed serious, in-depth research on it, then you should do it yourselves and inform the rest of us. Show us the “real” Greek Life. Write an article yourselves so that we “ignorant” outsiders can see the light. We will wait.
And as for having to experience something before you write about it? Well, toss that argument aside, because it weakens yours. If journalists had to truly experience and know everything they wrote about, there would be no news. Put your bitter defensiveness aside and try to apply this argument to something truly “news-worthy.” Why does no one say anything about journalists writing about natural disasters and murder trials and economic crises when most of them have never experienced those situations? If journalists could only express opinions on those things on which they are experts, on those things they have researched tirelessly, no one would read newspapers.
It does not take a talented writer to report the facts. “This happened.” Done, end of story. Is that really what we want journalism to be? Is that how we want our news? I know it is not what I want. I want to be able to actually read the news.
It does not take a talent writer to piss people off, either. The Catholic Church article pissed people off, and that was much more poorly written than this one. Also, the Catholic community is probably just a bit larger than Greek Life, not to mention the church was specifically targeted, unlike the Greek community at NAU. So why such a huge response to Joey? Maybe it is really because of the awesome comic. (Yay David!)
This is, actually, a well-written article. Everyone who has attempted to claim otherwise has no solid argument as to why. Joey did do his research; it just was not the research the Greeks wanted to see in their school paper. Get over it. Thumbs up, Joey.
Oh, and I can see it now. Front page news in The Lumberjack next week: Greek Life helps LJ shatter web records and pull in much-needed advertising dollars.
Bottomline: An opinion stirred chaos. People will still have stereotypical views of Greek Life no matter what. Lumberjack writers will always do their best aa what they see fit for their jobs. Everyone is entitled to publish their opinion. But why publish something that may cause outrage? The stereotypes have been well-recognized decades ago, but why present an incident from another school and use it as segue to construct a generalization. Everyone should respect your opinion Joey. C’mon we’re all human. But why cause chaos. I don’t wanna judge but before publishing the article, did it cross your mind that your opinion may make alot of people angry? or were you going for this effect intentionally? or did you hope for attention? I’m sorry if I judge but peace is disturbed. Why make something out of nothing. If people are all completely blunt with each other and are not tack not everyone will be able to handle criticism, I know I wouldn’t especially if it’s not a close friend or family. No one will have good respectable relations with each other.
There are several things withing this article which are bothersome. As I understand it, this is an editorial article voicing the opinion that Greek Life creates an enviorment where not only immaturity and debauchery thrive, but practices which detract from personal freedom are socially acceptable, and that these actions are in poor taste and should be reformed.
Joey uses an article about a TCU Frat branding one of their pledges as an example of such an act. An obvious point to make is that TCU and NAU are two different universities and the actions one fraternity does not necessarily reflect the common goings of the Greek community as a whole. In the editorial, the writer conicedes to stereotyping and the fact that not all fraternities participate in less-than-acceptable behavior stating, “Are there some fraternities and sororities that don’t do that? Sure. But that’s irrelevant.” The fact that this is an editorial article does not give the writer the right to pass broad generalizations as fact. It turns out that the actions of the party one is attacking in ones article is very relevant. Also, his examples which support his reasoning behind making his generalization do not work. If he is suggesting that all of Greek Life be reprimanded for the actions for a few, than in his baseball analogy, every single baseball player would need to be reprimanded for the actions of ARod and company. In reality, the only people reprimanded were the people who committed the wrongful action, the people who broke the rules. This is also the case on the NAU campus, Pi Kappa Alpha being an example.
As for the infringement on personal freedom this article alludes to: joining a Fraternity or a Sorority is a voluntary action. Greek Life is allowed to be demanding as they want as long as they complie with the University on issues of hazing and inniation. It is up to individual to decide if those demands are reasonable.
The article also ignores the good qualities which Greek Life brings to the campus. Philanthropy, Brother/Sisterhood, and career networking have always been key elements of Greek Life.
I am not a fraternity member. I just find it unfair for a group of people to be unfairly categorized, especially in an article as sloppy as this one. However, I do believe that this article was written with the intent to be controversial and inspire feedback. To that end, Joey succeeded. But at what cost? I was under the impression that the LJ was trying to repair relations with Greek Life. This article seems to be a step backward.
You just managed to stereotype one of the biggest groups of people in colleges across America. As well as probably a fair amount of politicians, celebrities, and powerful people (probably with a few mob connections).
But don’t fret too much about the 122 comments made slamming you for saying negative unnecessary things based on the actions of a small group of drunk Texans, the Lumberjack will probably fire you for inciting discussion. Because good lord, that’s not what Op/Ed is for.
So, for the record, this is an opinion piece, and like every political pundit out there, the truth isn’t necessarily the point, just the opinion. Second, why does ONE opinion piece mean that the Lumberjack hates Greek Life? Here’s a though, get a Greek to join the paper and start writing alternative pieces, then stop the whining about the bias. Plus, mentioning the Pikes and how different TCU is from NAU doesn’t work very well; if they were so different perhaps they wouldn’t have been removed from NAU.
While the article may be offensive, it has rallied Greeks across campus together like I have never seen before. Unfortunately for Greek Life, hazing incidents pop up every year discrediting their name, and until it comes to a halt they will forever be branded. It is unacceptable that after students have died from hazing there are still Fraternities and Sororities out there willing to haze.
The author of this OPINION piece never once bashed the Greek system here at NAU, but instead as a whole institution, within there clearly are problems. Perhaps he shouldn’t have been as harsh towards Greek Life, but this is not a reason to boycott our student voice. One person on the Lumberjack staff does not represent the student body, just like Greek Life does not represent the whole student body. Everyone needs to accept that their exist different opinions and that’s what makes up our student body.
Unknown,
you are probably the most ignorant person that is posting shit on this page. I love how all you idiots that bash greek life hide behind your computers, with names like “Unknown” and talk shit. You should go to Mt. View and express your opinions in chapter meetings. I’m sure everyone in greek life would love to hear what you have to say. You try to say that greek life students buy their friends, when in reality, all the money they spend to be a member of their fraternity/sorority allows them to have fun in college. We have socials with girls, which you probably don’t need to worry about since your right hand and your computer are probably your best friends. We get to make a difference in the community and learn how to be leaders. Im sorry to hear your college experience is going to blow(something else you are probably good at).
sincerely,
John
Joey, I must say you caused quite an uproar bashing the Greek community. Although your opinion is of some value, shame on you for speaking so inconsiderately on the behalf of a large portion of the campus community. Convenient of you to focus on the wrong doings of Greek populations at other universities and make hasty generalizations; however, how many NAMI Walks, Thanksgiving dinners, blood drives, adopt-a-plot, or philanthropic fundraisers hosted by Greeks have you participated in? Don’t throw everyone under the bus in an attempt to make headlines. Do your research and then pass judgment…if you’re even in a position to do so.
Wow! You have quite a bias… The funny thing is, life is about overcoming obstacles and paying your dues to become succesful. Did you write an article your first day at the lumberjack… I’m guessing not. You probably did someone elses work they didn’t want to do. In every succesful organization there is some form of hazing and a distinct difference between leadership and “the new person”. Now the hazing may not be physical but it never the less is. Those who succeed in this environment will be succeful in life and the weak will either fail or be complacent.
oh boohoo greek life shame on you joey boohoo
I am not a student nor am I am member of Greek life; I am a proud parent of a Phi Delta Theta. I do not find fault in the author having and writing an opinion; however if you want your opinion to be heard or respected the first step should be to become educated on the subject.
My opinions about fraternities and sororities in the past were mainly developed from hearsay either from movies or from outside observers. Those opinions honestly were not very high; however, I would have been the first to admit that I did not really know enough about Greek life to have a well-developed opinion. When my son decided to pledge, I supported him and kept an OPEN mind and yes, I even paid the dues.
Because I kept my mind open, my “eyes were opened” too, opened up to what pledging and Greek life is really about. Now that I have been educated, I feel that I can support my new opinion. Some will still not agree with me and that is great, our differences is what makes us who we.
This brings me back to what I said earlier, about not having a problem with the author writing an opinion. This is an opinion piece and he certainly has the right to his opinion but when it appears that he has not really done much research and is just on a personal rant it take all credibility away from both the piece and the author.
Again, it is an opinion piece and will illicit opinions back that is the point, my advice to the author is if you want to be taken seriously in the future do your research and present your opinion in a mature manner.
As for boycotting the paper it is one way to express an opinion, however it might be more beneficial to write an opinion piece in response to this one. There is enough bad press on Greek life it is time to be informative to the public about the positive sides.
Disclaimer: I am not a naive parent I know there are parties and all sorts of things that take place in college. I have not found it more prevalent within the Greek societies than non-Greek at least at NAU.
Footnotes:
The dues go towards operating expenses not buying friends – if you pay to take a group trip are you paying for the trip or the friends to go with.
For those who do not want to be “degraded” then do not pledge and for Gods sake do not enlist in the military you would never survive boot camp.
If NAU’s “greek community” feels unjustly treated because the writer spoke poorly about greek organizations based on “a few bad apples” then why are they proposing to boycott the entire university’s newspaper based on ONE editorial they didn’t agree with?
What about all the other hard working writers for news, sports, arts & entertainment and the many photographers who also work for the newspaper.
Hypocrisy at its finest?
John M,
Let me first apologize if I went too far with the joke I posted earlier, in reference to Greek life being ignorant. That was too much of a hasty generalization for me to say, so for that I’m sorry and admit I was wrong. Let me clarify something though; I did not post the statement below that one that says, “The Greek community does not have much to stand on other than a big pile of bull shit.” I completely disagree with this statement, as I’m even planning to join a music fraternity myself. Someone else actually posed as me with the same name, probably to make it seem like I’m an idiot.
As far as the reference with “my right hand” and “the computer,” I don’t appreciate it, but thanks for supporting my point from much earlier about a lot of people using strong insults and expletives on here. Honestly, what do you believe you accomplish with insults? I was simply stating an opinion in support of Joey that never personally attacked anyone, but since you disagreed me, you figured it’d be easier to attack me rather than speak respectfully and intelligently. So for that, I say nice work.
Another point of mine: if you really feel what I’m is saying is inaccurate, then why do you even care what I have to say? If you disagree, then you disagree, and that’s fine. I can’t expect everyone to agree with me or Joey. However, by attacking me out of context and being defensive, it just leads me more to think you believe deep down that something I or Joey said was actually right. I’m not saying you necesarily do feel this way, but it can come off that way in some instances.
“For those who do not want to be “degraded” then do not pledge and for Gods sake do not enlist in the military you would never survive boot camp.”
Hey mom, are you also insinuating the United States Military? Or insinuating that they have would haze the way greeks have?
The two fraternities that have been revoked from NAU were hazing students, methods included locking men in restrooms until they all vomited, forcing them to look at male pornography and strobe lights, forcing them to go without showers, verbal abuse, throwing rotten fruit and food at them in the forest, etc, etc, etc.
I’d sincerely hope that if you feel the United States Military utilizes these aggressive and homoerotic tactics, you address them immediately. Please contact someone in Washington, D.C. ASAP!
And mom, thanks for paying for your son’s dues. It seems like parents are usually the ones who pay those, right?
Wow, I am astonished at how offended so many people were at Joey’s article. Many took it very personally as if he was publicly slamming them; or that he was specifically accusing NAU fraternities of hazing and other mindless and inappropriate activities.
It is interesting that several students criticized Joey’s journalistic skills, his research, or his bias. The charge that such an opinon letter has to be objective or has to present the most outstanding research ever discovered is misguided. They either have no clue as to what editorials are or have no restraint at displaying their own stupidity. Joey admits in his letter that he stereotyping, purposefully to highlight a dispicable practice that many, not all, fraternities around the country probably practice. He does not point the finger at any NAU societies, specifically, so the reaction by so many students
is amazing. If Joey is such a bad writer or if his editorial is such a poorly expressed piece, why have he and his article generated such a fuss? Is not one of the purposes of some editorials to win a hearing so that issues will be exposed and discussed? Joey’s article has certainly accomplished that.
I pay for my own dues. My own rent. My own bills. I guess that makes me a snobby frat bro right?
To “Unknown”:
You, sir, should not be offended by the article because u aren’t joining a real fraternity. A MUSIC FRATERNITY ISN’T A GREEK ORGANIZATION, ITS A SCHOOL CLUB WITH GREEK LETTERS. You are joining the college version of HS band, only this time you won’t be stuffed in trash cans. So go join and enjoy your rusty trombone with joey, but you’ll never be a greek. NERD!
To “True Greek”
This is why people have such negative stereotypes about “real Greeks.” Because as far as I can see, you’re a bunch of douche bags who need a special club of people just like you to feel better about yourselves. A music fraternity is just as much of a Greek organization as your binge drinking pals belong to, only better because you aren’t in it.
The response from Greeks to this article has proved everything that Joey was trying to say. No amount of “philanthropy” or “bonding” can change the fact that you guys didn’t want to leave the drama of high school behind and need to pay dues every semester to have friends.
For all of you who seem to know what happens in Greek life, you dont have a clue unless you’re a part of it. Joining something like this is above all of us, and prepares us for that long journey known as life. If we’re all just “frat bros” then i guess you can call Brad Pitt, John Wayne, John F Kennedy, and MLK just “frat bros”.
clearly he couldnt get a bid
Banning Burt,
What a stupid goddamn argument. Are you kidding?
Ok guys, enough is enough. I’m in a sorority and although I certainly do not agree with this article and I don’t appreciate what Joey wrote, these comments have gotten a little out of hand from both sides.
Fellow Greeks, it is unnecessary to be mean and condescending to everyone who agrees/likes Joey’s article. It isn’t helping us or our case out, it is making us look terrible. Take the higher road on this matter :)I am so proud to be Greek and to represent my sorority so just remember how to act with class.
And everyone in support of this article, please just move on as well. We don’t agree with this article because we know for NAU that it is very untrue. But Joey has every right to an opinion, whether we agree with it or not.
John W,
You posed a great arguement yourself my friend. So what is it that you have against Greek life? The fact that we do more with our college experiences says more about us then you. Dont talk shit, its not neccessary. The point i was getting across was the fact that everyone labels us “frat bros” while some of the greatest leaders in the world were “frat bros” according to everyones statements.
In Hoc
Yeah Banning, I was definitely trying to make an argument. Clever girl.